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Shemiramoth
Moderator
4339 Posts |
 Posted - 03/03/2006 : 10:05:27
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quote:
Originally posted by MegaDeath
ted nevim jestli si plete bloodlorda s broodlordem, nebo to ma nakej hlubsi podtext
Chulanebra myslel ZG bloodlorda a mefisto myslel Bloodlorda Lashlayera a stejne je to maslo 
Edit: omg little ..tak jo jsem druhej.
Edit2: omfg co jsem to napsal ..ano little ma pravdu. jsem to napsal blbe. |
- If you don't like something, change it. If you can't change it, change your attitude. Don't complain.
- When you can't run you crawl, when you can't crawl, when you can't do that, find someone to carry you.
- Achiever 27%, Explorer 67%, Killer 27%, Socializer 80%
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Edited by - Shemiramoth on 03/03/2006 10:08:25 |
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Little
Moderator
2901 Posts |
Posted - 03/03/2006 : 10:07:33
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quote:
Originally posted by Shemiramoth
quote:
Originally posted by MegaDeath
ted nevim jestli si plete bloodlorda s broodlordem, nebo to ma nakej hlubsi podtext
Chulanebra myslel ZG bloodlorda a mefisto myslel Bloodlorda Lashlayera a stejne je to maslo
Edit: omg little ..tak jo jsem druhej.
v BWL je Broodlord, ne Bloodlord, mno jen pro doplneni
(ja vim ja vim, vecnej prudic  ) |
"End of hope, end of love, end of time. The rest is silence."
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chulanbetra
Junior Member
635 Posts |
Posted - 03/03/2006 : 10:31:51
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jj sorry all, to ta praca |
choť topiče |
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Jebka
New Member
170 Posts |
Posted - 03/03/2006 : 12:28:26
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quote:
Originally posted by Mefisto
quote:
Originally posted by Speh
quote:
Originally posted by Jebka
quote:
Originally posted by Kaldo
Ice Block....popripade Cold Snap a znova IB (pokud mas Frost build)...v pripade Fire maga muzes akorat zavrit oci a doufat ze te netrefi.
iceblock radsej nespominaj ked nevies o co go.
ocivihodne ty nevis o co go.protoze zkutecne ten war za ten cas co jsi v ice bloku ma cas moba z tebe sundat.
kdyz ma war 1000 aggra a ty jako mag mas 1090 tak je mob furt na warovi
ve chvili kdy prekrocis 1100 mob jde po tobe ... mag da iceblock a mob nepujde zpatky na wara ... pujde na toho dalsiho maga kterej mel 1050 aggra a pak na toho priesta s 1030 pote co ten dalsi mag iceblockne a pak teprve mozna na toho wara, tim hur kdyz ma ten mob deagro ability
iceblock je jen trapna berlicka ktera te parkrat muze zachranit ale taky te parkrat muze wipnout(typicky broodlord)
aspon niekto tusi vo co go.
za ten fade sa omluvam, aj majster tesar sa utne ;)
pre magov by to chcelo nieco ako Feint, FD (nespominam fade pac to uz mam teda vysvetlene):
rogue: dps-dps-feint-dps-dps-feint-dps-dps-feint
mage: dps-dps-pauza-dps-cigaretka-dps-dps-toilet break- dps
proste mage je designovany ako high end dmg dealer bohuzial v skutocnosti naplna svoj potencial iba na 70% zbytok casu sa drzi na uzde resp sa na uzde nedrzi a bossovia behaju kde nemaju behat :P |
Edited by - Jebka on 03/03/2006 12:32:01 |
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Rahman
Moderator
4368 Posts |
Posted - 03/03/2006 : 12:39:24
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S tim nikdo nepolemizuje, nicmene iceblock je porad dost unikatni (kdyz nepocitam paladiny) v tom, ze mag muze jednak prezit situaci kdy preagruje, a druhak okamzite a zcela spolehlive vratit aggro na tanka (sice docasne, ale tank do konce iceblocku maga opet preagruje).
V souvislosti s iceblockem mne napada zajimava otazka: Kdyz je mag v iceblocku, ma na mobovi porad stejne aggro, nebo se aggro resetuje na 0 a po skonceni iceblocku vraci na puvodni hodnotu? Pokud plati prvni pripad, tak ma velmi dobry smysl davat taunt kdyz se vrati mob od ledoveho maga (zni to jako nesmysl, ale teoreticky by to fungovat mohlo). |
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Jebka
New Member
170 Posts |
Posted - 03/03/2006 : 13:23:39
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quote:
Originally posted by Rahman
S tim nikdo nepolemizuje, nicmene iceblock je porad dost unikatni (kdyz nepocitam paladiny) v tom, ze mag muze jednak prezit situaci kdy preagruje, a druhak okamzite a zcela spolehlive vratit aggro na tanka (sice docasne, ale tank do konce iceblocku maga opet preagruje).
V souvislosti s iceblockem mne napada zajimava otazka: Kdyz je mag v iceblocku, ma na mobovi porad stejne aggro, nebo se aggro resetuje na 0 a po skonceni iceblocku vraci na puvodni hodnotu? Pokud plati prvni pripad, tak ma velmi dobry smysl davat taunt kdyz se vrati mob od ledoveho maga (zni to jako nesmysl, ale teoreticky by to fungovat mohlo).
najlepsie na tom je davat taunt na taunt immune bossa :) |
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Rahman
Moderator
4368 Posts |
Posted - 03/03/2006 : 13:32:55
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quote:
Originally posted by Jebka
quote:
Originally posted by Rahman
S tim nikdo nepolemizuje, nicmene iceblock je porad dost unikatni (kdyz nepocitam paladiny) v tom, ze mag muze jednak prezit situaci kdy preagruje, a druhak okamzite a zcela spolehlive vratit aggro na tanka (sice docasne, ale tank do konce iceblocku maga opet preagruje).
V souvislosti s iceblockem mne napada zajimava otazka: Kdyz je mag v iceblocku, ma na mobovi porad stejne aggro, nebo se aggro resetuje na 0 a po skonceni iceblocku vraci na puvodni hodnotu? Pokud plati prvni pripad, tak ma velmi dobry smysl davat taunt kdyz se vrati mob od ledoveho maga (zni to jako nesmysl, ale teoreticky by to fungovat mohlo).
najlepsie na tom je davat taunt na taunt immune bossa :)
Kolik znas bossu imunich na taunt? Par jich je to jo, ale mnohem min, nez si spousta lidi mysli |
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MegaDeath
Average Member
1989 Posts |
Posted - 03/03/2006 : 13:42:44
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| pulka bwl se neda tauntovat |
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Gurrshael
Average Member
1888 Posts |
Posted - 03/03/2006 : 13:42:52
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quote:
Originally posted by Jebka
quote:
Originally posted by Mefisto
quote:
Originally posted by Speh
quote:
Originally posted by Jebka
quote:
Originally posted by Kaldo
Ice Block....popripade Cold Snap a znova IB (pokud mas Frost build)...v pripade Fire maga muzes akorat zavrit oci a doufat ze te netrefi.
iceblock radsej nespominaj ked nevies o co go.
ocivihodne ty nevis o co go.protoze zkutecne ten war za ten cas co jsi v ice bloku ma cas moba z tebe sundat.
kdyz ma war 1000 aggra a ty jako mag mas 1090 tak je mob furt na warovi
ve chvili kdy prekrocis 1100 mob jde po tobe ... mag da iceblock a mob nepujde zpatky na wara ... pujde na toho dalsiho maga kterej mel 1050 aggra a pak na toho priesta s 1030 pote co ten dalsi mag iceblockne a pak teprve mozna na toho wara, tim hur kdyz ma ten mob deagro ability
iceblock je jen trapna berlicka ktera te parkrat muze zachranit ale taky te parkrat muze wipnout(typicky broodlord)
aspon niekto tusi vo co go.
za ten fade sa omluvam, aj majster tesar sa utne ;)
pre magov by to chcelo nieco ako Feint, FD (nespominam fade pac to uz mam teda vysvetlene):
rogue: dps-dps-feint-dps-dps-feint-dps-dps-feint
mage: dps-dps-pauza-dps-cigaretka-dps-dps-toilet break- dps
proste mage je designovany ako high end dmg dealer bohuzial v skutocnosti naplna svoj potencial iba na 70% zbytok casu sa drzi na uzde resp sa na uzde nedrzi a bossovia behaju kde nemaju behat :P
Jen bych hnidopišsky opravil, že přeagrování u melee class je 110% ale u ranged je to 130% ;-) |
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Little
Moderator
2901 Posts |
Posted - 03/03/2006 : 13:44:56
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quote:
Originally posted by Gurrshael
Jen bych hnidopišsky opravil, že přeagrování u melee class je 110% ale u ranged je to 130% ;-)
jj na melee by se meli ty huntersky peti krotit, pak se to otoci a svadi se to na roguey
a na range zase ti druidi  |
"End of hope, end of love, end of time. The rest is silence."
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Jebka
New Member
170 Posts |
Posted - 03/03/2006 : 13:48:43
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quote:
Originally posted by MegaDeath
pulka bwl se neda tauntovat
/qft |
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Rahman
Moderator
4368 Posts |
Posted - 03/03/2006 : 14:33:01
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quote:
Originally posted by MegaDeath
pulka bwl se neda tauntovat
Odhadem tak 75% vsech raid bossu v soucasnem WoWu tauntovat jde. |
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-Mike-
Average Member
1308 Posts |
Posted - 03/03/2006 : 14:57:21
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quote:
Originally posted by Rahman
V souvislosti s iceblockem mne napada zajimava otazka: Kdyz je mag v iceblocku, ma na mobovi porad stejne aggro, nebo se aggro resetuje na 0 a po skonceni iceblocku vraci na puvodni hodnotu? Pokud plati prvni pripad, tak ma velmi dobry smysl davat taunt kdyz se vrati mob od ledoveho maga (zni to jako nesmysl, ale teoreticky by to fungovat mohlo).
Funguje to presne jak si popsal. |
Krabice je zaklad. |
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HollyG
Starting Member
23 Posts |
Posted - 03/03/2006 : 15:31:41
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quote:
Originally posted by -Mike-
quote:
Originally posted by Rahman
V souvislosti s iceblockem mne napada zajimava otazka: Kdyz je mag v iceblocku, ma na mobovi porad stejne aggro, nebo se aggro resetuje na 0 a po skonceni iceblocku vraci na puvodni hodnotu? Pokud plati prvni pripad, tak ma velmi dobry smysl davat taunt kdyz se vrati mob od ledoveho maga (zni to jako nesmysl, ale teoreticky by to fungovat mohlo).
Funguje to presne jak si popsal.
Jeste upresnim snizi to dejme tomu na 1, cili kdyz uz neni nikdo jinej zivej s agrem na nem, mlati do me v kostce.
Jinak se tu bavime o ice blocku, ale ten nema prakticky nic spolecnyho s agro managementem, je to ciste save abilita, zachrani maga od smrti, ale u minimalne poloviny bossu v bwl znamena nutnost jejiho pouziti k tomuhle ucelu wipe... |
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Rahman
Moderator
4368 Posts |
Posted - 03/03/2006 : 15:53:42
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quote:
Originally posted by -Mike-
quote:
Originally posted by Rahman
V souvislosti s iceblockem mne napada zajimava otazka: Kdyz je mag v iceblocku, ma na mobovi porad stejne aggro, nebo se aggro resetuje na 0 a po skonceni iceblocku vraci na puvodni hodnotu? Pokud plati prvni pripad, tak ma velmi dobry smysl davat taunt kdyz se vrati mob od ledoveho maga (zni to jako nesmysl, ale teoreticky by to fungovat mohlo).
Funguje to presne jak si popsal.
Ja sem napsal funguje to tak nebo tak a tys odpovedel ze to funguje jak jsem napsal. Pochopitelne ze to funguje tak nebo tak, ale jak? :)
Otazka zni, zdali je to realizovani docasnou redukci aggra na magovi s tim, ze se o zbytek postara aggro system sam, nebo se o to stara aggro system s tim, ze se podiva, ze mag ma prislusny flag (ice block) a ignoruje ho. Ta druha varianta by znamenala, ze mag ma stale aggro tank + X a kdyz tank da taunt, dak sve aggro zvysi o X, prestoze je mag v ice bloku. Prvni varianta by znamenala, ze tauntem sve aggro warr nezvysi, protoze mag ma v te dobe aggro 1. |
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-Mike-
Average Member
1308 Posts |
Posted - 03/03/2006 : 17:29:53
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quote:
Originally posted by Rahman
Ja sem napsal funguje to tak nebo tak a tys odpovedel ze to funguje jak jsem napsal. Pochopitelne ze to funguje tak nebo tak, ale jak? :)
sry blbe ctu :)
aggro resetuje na 0 a po skonceni iceblocku vraci na puvodni hodnotu. |
Krabice je zaklad. |
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Jebka
New Member
170 Posts |
Posted - 03/03/2006 : 21:08:43
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quote:
Originally posted by Rahman
quote:
Originally posted by MegaDeath
pulka bwl se neda tauntovat
Odhadem tak 75% vsech raid bossu v soucasnem WoWu tauntovat jde.
o MC sa nebavme tam nie je jediny boss co by mal nejaky mass destruction attack ktory by wipol raid.
Onyxia tauntovat nejde, ked sa otoci na jednej polke raidu a fukne trocha ohnika zvycajne to rezultuje do zopar mrtvych. depends on fire resistance
Nef tauntovat nejde, jeden pekny shadowflame a je po raide.
Broodlord tauntovat nejde, blastwave v castercampe je fun.
Chrom tauntovat nejde.
Vael tauntovat nejde, raz fukne do raidu a je hotovo.
Razor tauntovat nejde, conflagration do raidu je tiez fun
Neviem ako su na tom green dragons.
hakkar tauntovat nejde, jedno jeho aoecko dokaze narobit bordel
Bossovia v AQ su zrejme taunt imune, nemozem posudit nebol som tam.
V podstate tauntovat idu bossovia v instanciach co su v hre od zaciatku, s pribudajucimi raid bossmi su skoro vsetci taunt imune a maju nejake pekne AoE
tymto chcem naznacit ze v dobe ked boli magovia designovany naozaj moc deaggro abilit nepotrebovali, teraz by sa im jedna zisla. my two cents |
Edited by - Jebka on 03/03/2006 21:10:30 |
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Mefisto
Junior Member
767 Posts |
Posted - 04/03/2006 : 05:25:30
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jestli deaggro pro magy tak jedine za cenu nejaky utility
mag ma group buff, vody(zkuste jit raidinstance treba jen s jednim magem, uz ted ho lituju ) aoe, perfektni aoe root kterej se hodi do zerg encounteru, a vcelku solidni single target dps
rogue ma vysokou dps, stuny ( snad jedinej boss na kteryho jsou pouzitelny jsou majordomovi addi :p + ten novej blbec v AQ o kterym vim zatim fakt velky prd ), skill na snizeni aggra ( uprimne receno feint je no big deal, ta nova verze z AQ ti strhne 800 aggra za 20 energy tj. tak 1 backstab, ani ne ), a vanish ( full drop aggra ) v zakladu 5 minut cooldownu ( da se snizit az na 3,25 )
aggro drop pro magy by bylo v pve op imo
me je spis trochu lito ze blizz uz od zacatku neudelal roguy jako aggro kingy, skilly na shazovani aggra ostatnich, schovani jinyho hrace a tim chvilkove vynulovani jeho aggra atd.
momentalne je tezkej aggro king hunter ... 30 sec cd FD, to je fakt trapny a imo tezce nedomysleny ale co ...
quote:
a druhak okamzite a zcela spolehlive vratit aggro na tanka
rahmane cetl si vubec co sem napsal ? prave ze tohleto ice block ani nahodou nedela, on te vymaze z aggro listu ale pod tebou muze klidne bejt 5 dalsich magu a teprve pak ten warrior, proc myslis ze se u broodlorda kdyz preagrujes bezi k nemu a nevanishuje se, neiceblokuje se kdyz uz preagrujes, protoze kdyz ty si preagroval tak si mel o 10% vic aggra jak tank
(mimojine nemyslim ze je to pro ranged 130 ... to je spis to ze jakakoliv ranged dmg dela 130% meelee aggra, ale klidne to tak muze bejt, do takovy hloubky sem ranged aggro nestudoval)
coz znamena ze je skoro jisty ze pod tebou bude dalsi dmgdealer a ne ten tank |
"The time for desperation is upon us. Let's play." |
Edited by - Mefisto on 04/03/2006 05:30:56 |
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Rahman
Moderator
4368 Posts |
Posted - 06/03/2006 : 09:49:24
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quote:
Originally posted by Mefisto
prave ze tohleto ice block ani nahodou nedela, on te vymaze z aggro listu ale pod tebou muze klidne bejt 5 dalsich magu a teprve pak ten warrior, proc myslis ze se u broodlorda kdyz preagrujes bezi k nemu a nevanishuje se, neiceblokuje se kdyz uz preagrujes, protoze kdyz ty si preagroval tak si mel o 10% vic aggra jak tank
(mimojine nemyslim ze je to pro ranged 130 ... to je spis to ze jakakoliv ranged dmg dela 130% meelee aggra, ale klidne to tak muze bejt, do takovy hloubky sem ranged aggro nestudoval)
coz znamena ze je skoro jisty ze pod tebou bude dalsi dmgdealer a ne ten tank
Tohle je opravdu krasna vymluva pro ranged classy ;-)
To co pises je blud. Pokud ja mam na mobovi aggro 1000001 a ty 1000002, tak jde mob po tobe nezavisle na tom, jakou cestou si toho aggra dosahnul. To, ze se pak otoci po dalsich ranged damagerech je ciste efekt toho, ze tank, kteremu utekl mob, pochopitelne na tom mobovi aggro nedela a dd, kteri nestopnou damage, ho v momente predjedou. |
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Jebka
New Member
170 Posts |
Posted - 06/03/2006 : 10:27:28
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quote:
Originally posted by Rahman
quote:
Originally posted by Mefisto
prave ze tohleto ice block ani nahodou nedela, on te vymaze z aggro listu ale pod tebou muze klidne bejt 5 dalsich magu a teprve pak ten warrior, proc myslis ze se u broodlorda kdyz preagrujes bezi k nemu a nevanishuje se, neiceblokuje se kdyz uz preagrujes, protoze kdyz ty si preagroval tak si mel o 10% vic aggra jak tank
(mimojine nemyslim ze je to pro ranged 130 ... to je spis to ze jakakoliv ranged dmg dela 130% meelee aggra, ale klidne to tak muze bejt, do takovy hloubky sem ranged aggro nestudoval)
coz znamena ze je skoro jisty ze pod tebou bude dalsi dmgdealer a ne ten tank
Tohle je opravdu krasna vymluva pro ranged classy ;-)
Pokud ja mam na mobovi aggro 1000001 a ty 1000002, tak jde mob po tobe nezavisle na tom, jakou cestou si toho aggra dosahnul.
to je blud.
aggro list moze vyzerat takto:
mage1: 109aggro
mage2: 109aggro
hunt1: 109aggro
hunt2: 108aggro
tank1: 100aggro
v tejto chvili pojde mob stale po tankovi. akonahle niekto prekroci hranicu 110aggro MT straca aggro. Pojde po mage1 a hatelist bude vyzerat takto:
mage1: 111aggro
mage2: 109aggro
hunt1: 109aggro
hunt2: 108aggro
tank1: 100aggro
na to aby tank prebral aggro znova naspat musi mat 111aggro+10%=121aggro pricom v tej chvili ma iba 100 aggro. tzn ze dalsi target bossa po tom co mage1 da iceblock bude mage2. mage2 da IB a boss pojde po hunterovi1 ktory da FD a mob pojde po hutnerovi2 a az potom naspat na tanka.
a takto to napisal aj mefisto. |
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Mefisto
Junior Member
767 Posts |
Posted - 06/03/2006 : 10:51:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Rahman
quote:
Originally posted by Mefisto
prave ze tohleto ice block ani nahodou nedela, on te vymaze z aggro listu ale pod tebou muze klidne bejt 5 dalsich magu a teprve pak ten warrior, proc myslis ze se u broodlorda kdyz preagrujes bezi k nemu a nevanishuje se, neiceblokuje se kdyz uz preagrujes, protoze kdyz ty si preagroval tak si mel o 10% vic aggra jak tank
(mimojine nemyslim ze je to pro ranged 130 ... to je spis to ze jakakoliv ranged dmg dela 130% meelee aggra, ale klidne to tak muze bejt, do takovy hloubky sem ranged aggro nestudoval)
coz znamena ze je skoro jisty ze pod tebou bude dalsi dmgdealer a ne ten tank
Tohle je opravdu krasna vymluva pro ranged classy ;-)
To co pises je blud. Pokud ja mam na mobovi aggro 1000001 a ty 1000002, tak jde mob po tobe nezavisle na tom, jakou cestou si toho aggra dosahnul. To, ze se pak otoci po dalsich ranged damagerech je ciste efekt toho, ze tank, kteremu utekl mob, pochopitelne na tom mobovi aggro nedela a dd, kteri nestopnou damage, ho v momente predjedou.
2) Gaining aggro on a mob Updated Jan 31
Suppose a mob is attacking player 1. In order for the mob to switch to player 2, he must do more than just exceed the threat of player 1. If he is in melee range of the mob, he will draw aggro when he exceeds 110% of player 1's threat. If he is outside melee range of the mob, he will draw aggro when he exceeds 130% of player 1's threat.
E.g. mob is attacking player x. x does 100 damage to mob, then stops. Player y starts hitting the mob. The mob will start attacking y when y does over 110 damage.
Proof: this is easy to demonstrate. Get two players both doing autoattack on a mob (not warriors of rogues; we'll see later they complicate things). Have player 1 do a certain amount of damage, then stop. Have player 2 keep attacking till he gets aggro. You have an upper and lower bound on the threat required to get aggro - 1 attack before he got aggro was not enough, but the attack that he got aggro was at least enough. With low damage attacks (i.e. fists only), you will get a very good value of 10%. Testing for the non-melee range value is the same. Just replace it with a low damage ability such as a low level wand.
If player 2 has exceeded 110% threat but not 130% threat, they will draw aggro immediately if they do a threat-generating ability within melee range of the mob, but proximity alone will not cause the mob to shift to them.
This is only a description of the normal mob targetting. Obviously there are mobs who will attack secondary targets with special abilities, ignoring their current threat / aggro.
grats, you lost :p
edit : jinak ten clovek co tu rikal 110/130 meelee/ranged mel samozrejme pravdu, taky si clovek nemuze vsimnout vseho :) |
"The time for desperation is upon us. Let's play." |
Edited by - Mefisto on 06/03/2006 11:13:17 |
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