Bohuzel nevim odkud jsem si tento text copy and pastnul, takze nejsem schopen zverejnit zdrojove url (je to z nejake fora). Je mi jasne, ze jsem pravedpodobne jediny cech, ktery v soucasnosti hraje na EQ Zeku, ale text je to velice zajimavy a stoji za precteni (napr. slabe a silne stranky jednotlivych classu v pvp).
*note: very long post but I think alot of people will agree with my ideas, read and tell me what you think*
In this post I will try to explain the pro's and cons of everything in pvp today and try to explain why I think it either needs balancing or is well balanced. This info is coming from a very experienced EQ pvp'er and warrior of Sullon Zek evil team.
I believe the biggest problem currently in pvp is the combination of uber gear (VT gear and better) and certain classes natural abilities. The combination of these things can make certain characters nearly unkillable or very hard to kill without the use of some sort of "insta kill" ability. There are far to many overpowered abilities but the main problem with these abilities is that altho there is many of them, they are only shared between a very few classes. SK's have the ability to instantly kill anyone at 74% or under (every 36 minutes) AND escape virtually any situation via an instant cast selo speed horse. Wizards have a nearly unresistable root with a pretty short re-use time, an unresistable super nuke, AND two instant cast escape-any-situation abilities. Basically what I'm getting at is you can't give characters an incredible ability to kill others,the ability to escape extremely easily. It has to be one or the other or a fair mix of both but giving one class the best of both worlds is extremely unbalancing. An excellent example of this is a cleric, they can do hardly any damage in pvp but have an extremely high survivability and helpfulness to group pvp. The balance between their ability to kill and their ability to survive is perfectly balanced. However, Wizards and SK's are practically clerics with the ability to kill better then any class.
With that said, I bring up the next major problem which is the fact that without insta-kill abilities certain classes would be virtually unkillable i/e bards/paladins/clerics. This makes a very big problem because how do you nerf insta kills enough to not make them ridiculously overpowered without making certain classes virtually unkillable? It's a very difficult problem to solve. Speaking as an uber warrior myself, I can say that the only way anyone can kill me is with the use of strong root(I resist it half the time now) and/or manaburn mainly because I can either zone before dying and regen my hp's with my large amount of hp gear or zone into a non pvp zone. I've only been killed by means other then strong root/manaburn two times in the past 3 or so months. This isn't entirely that unbalancing tho because warriors aren't pk machines, we have to work pretty hard for our kills(like most classes) due to melee range restriction. I'm not entirely sure how to go about balancing insta kills but DT definately needs a pretty big nerf.
The resist system IMO is actually pretty well balanced. If you lower resist checks for every spell then that only hurts people with non high end gear even more and doesn't affect uber geared characters entirely as much. You make it even easier for well geared people to kill crappy geared people which is where we were before lowering resist checks, so that sort of fix does no good. Another way would be to make spells even easier to resist thus making people without high end gear more on par with the uber geared people in terms of resists. However, this pretty much screws over alot of casters and creates more unbalancing effects. If I had my say on resists I would think it would be to leave it alone unless something really clever is thought up that would have alot more positive then negative impacts.
One issue that dev's think is a big issue for pvp is rewards. I read on multiple posts that some sort of zone needs to be implemented where teams/guilds of people can pvp to claim said zone and have a chance at some "phat lootz". Clearly these people didn't think for a second how dumb of an idea this is. First of all, this is what EVERY raid zone on pvp servers is there for. Guilds pvp every day over kael, ssra, VT, PoP zones ect., you fight over these zones for "phat lootz". Second of all you can't exclude every blue server to have content specifically for pvp servers, thats just stupid and is never going to happen. The biggest problem with pvp rewards is that you can't make it to good of a reward. Coins on SZ is a very good idea but very misguided. Summon corpse potions is one good reward, not TOO good of a reward but not that bad either so its a good balance. There needs to be a pool of rewards you can choose from and they can scale up to be pretty decent rewards. You buy these rewards with coins you receive from pvp. An example of this might be one coin will get you a summon corpse potion, 5 coins will get you a 10 charge sow potion, at around 25 coins you can either get a one charge hp/mana regen boost potion or a handmade backpack...whatever, you get my idea. You can scale up from there and do as you choose but I think this would probably be one of the most solid ways to base a pvp reward system around. Just set up a vendor in multiple zones with rewards on it that people can go to and simply purchase whatever with their coins earned from pvp. Much like the LDoN points system.
The next major issue with pvp is as Rytan says,"Safe zones rendering most locations impractical for PvP". This is indeed a problem that needs to be looked at and delt with. People camp books all day long hoping for easy kills and/or an actual even or tuff fight in which they have little risk of dying because they have their precious book. How do you prevent people from booking and hiding behind an a safe zone? The idea I have for dealing with this is making it so that people who involve themself in pvp are temporarily unable to click a book or if possible unable to zone at all for a set period of time, say about 15seconds as an example. Player A attacks player B, player B fights back and they fight for a few minutes. Both are now half dead and player C comes along to help player B. Player A dies unable to click book in time. Lineage 2 has a system like this in which if you initiate pvp your name becomes purple, and if the person you attack doesn't fight back they remain white but if they fight back they also become purple. Purple in EQ could mean that you can't click a book or maybe even zone depending how far you want to or can take it. If you don't attack back at someone who attacks you then you can zone away to safety. This could be excellent for lowbies because they might not be such a big target anymore for griefers because it might not be worth it to become flagged "purple" and be unable to zone. Theres a couple of ways you could go about this that would prevent people from booking/avoiding death while at the same time discourage griefing. You could make it so that when you kill a player, you can't book for 5 minutes as an example for killing a green con player, but you only receive a 30 second "purple" penalty for killing an even con. I'm not entirely sure of any other possible ways to solve this problem and think this type of system would work best by far.
Lastly, I'd like to note the pro's and cons of every class and my views on how to balance them.
Bard:
pro's - with decent gear and 1 song they can achieve 500vs all resists, can run ridiculously fast and nearly impossible to kill without either insta kill or the help of another bard. Can make a PK group 10x harder to kill and 10x deadlier. Can train like no other class can. With good gear and playing damage shield songs can actually beat just about any melee in a straight melee fight toe to toe. Has an unresistable mez which requires no mana. Theres more but thats their main pro's.
cons - can't deal any damage signifigant enough to get kills on a regular basis, hard to get any kills.
fix - somehow selo needs to be nerfed because its far beyond a game breaking ability when it comes to pvp, one way would be to have selo's have a chance at dropping if hit by another player, not entirely sure what can be done this far into the game but something even if its small would help. I'd like to say, give them the ability to deal a little more damage in pvp to get some kills but when it comes down to it they never were ment to kill in pvp but to help others get kills (which they can do VERY well) and to give them the ability to deal damage AND be nearly impossible to kill would just be pointless.
Beastlord:
pro's - some usefull buffs, annoying pet that can interrupt casters and stun
cons - horrible melee ability, low hp's, no way of dealing any sort of signifigant damage in pvp even with pet and good gear, can't gate/escape death too well
fix - increase pet damage a bit in pvp(not by alot but it definately needs to be upped even if its only a little increase), perhaps increase melee damage somehow (for pvp only if possible).
Cleric:
pro's - very hard to kill, very helpful in group and guild pvp, many usefull buffs, annoying stunning pet
cons - can't really hurt a fly, very difficult to get a kill with, often will be the target of focus fire in group and guild pvp, getting asked for virtue and BoR EVERYWHERE YOU GO.
fix - no fix needed, well balanced however I do believe that healing needs to be nerfed somehow in pvp, not entirely fair for nukes to do 66% and heals do 100%.
Druids:
pro's - excellent healing abilities, can port/insta gate, excellent dots, decent nuking ability, can snare, has hard hitting damage shields, usefull buffs
cons - low hp's, can die pretty fast, often resisted vs well geared players
fix - perfectly balanced class, however insta gate needs to be nerfed somehow for pvp.
Enchanter:
pro's - lots of usefull buffs, 2 unresistable mezzes, can charm tuff mobs for use in pvp in certain zones and a very usefull debuff, tash, can increase faction with mobs causing mobs to attack whoever attacks them unless faction is equal or better, very hard to kill with their vast amount of runes, can strip opponents buffs very fast(unless they happen to have 4 insta clicks), very usefull in group and guild pvp
cons - not very efficient at killing, they can kill single targets well with their mezzes/debuffs/nukes but not entirely well, often targeted for focus fire
fix - pretty well balanced class, bit to hard to kill tho considering their incredibly usefull abilities to mez and debuff, possibly nerf runes in pvp to some extent if possible. I sometimes think that being able to strip 4 buffs at a time every 4 seconds is a bit overpowered, because its unresistable. It's to really hard to say tho because buffs are pretty powerful now, perhaps capping the amount of enchantments you can remove from a player to 3 at a time might be a fair balance. That or add some sort of resist check to dispells in pvp, like a -200 MR check or something to the liking.
Magician:
pro's - their pets are actually good in pvp, good nuking ability, can kite other players while their pet does damage and stuns them giving them opportunities to nuke every now and then, excellent pvp debuff, efficient at solo pvp
cons - low hp's, dies fast, spells resisted in pvp vs well geared players
fix - well balanced, perhaps put a slightly lower resist check on some of their nukes to help vs uber gear but otherwise their ability to kill and their survivability is very well balanced.
Monk:
pro's - very high close range damage, can train/avoid trains well, very usefull self heal, can punish casters with stun and quick damage, very good at jousting, efficient at solo pvp
con - restricted to melee range combat, unless well geared have little defense vs spells, virtually defenseless when rooted/snared, can't gate/escape death that well
fix - very well balanced, only fix I can think of is maybe give monks a single long range attack type ability like "throwing star" or whatever that has 100% chance to land and does 500 damage with a re-use of lets say 30 minutes, to help them kill people that try run away/zone to safety. Would really help since its VERY easy to avoid melee range damage if you have equal or greater run speed.
Necromancer:
pro's - high long range damage, very hard to resist spells, strong pet, can avoid trains well, has insta kill ability, own nukes heal them making them very hard to kill, can solo pvp exceedingly well above every class
cons - susceptible to melee, vulnerable to spells unless well geared
fix - hard to say, little to powerful and should be nerfed a little some how, could make their spells a little easier to resist in pvp. They really dont have any cons throughout their entire career where they have to suffer inorder to become so powerful, meaning they dont have an exp penalty and faction really doesnt matter and they can exp very well and really give up nothing to become so powerful in pvp. This seems rather broken if you ask me and some sort of nerf needs to take place for necro's in pvp.
Paladin:
pro's - virtually unkillable with good gear, instant cast selo's speed horse, very fast cast heals virtually impossible to interrupt or prevent, pretty good melee damage, can DA to avoid insta deaths, have a instant complete heal ability re-usable every 72 minutes or 36 minutes with AA's, pretty efficient at solo pvp
cons - not very good at killing but can to an extent, all spells are almost always resisted, melee damage is low
fix - NERF AA HORSE FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, infact NERF ALL HORSES, I can't stress enough how unbalancing horses are in pvp and to have an instant cast SELO horse with absolutely no drawback or re-use timer is ridiculous, even when its snared it still runs faster then spirit of chitah. Their horse seriously needs atleast a 3 second cast atleast and when snared it should cut its run speed down to regular sow speed. Other then that the class is very well balanced IMO.
Ranger:
pro's - pretty good melee range damage, good long range damage, strong fast cast nukes, can snare, can bow kite you while laughing(freaking annoying), good damage shield, can self heal decently, has usefull buffs, can solo pvp pretty well
cons - can't kill entirely to well, not very high hp's, vulnerable to melee and to spells unless well geared, requires several specific aa's to become any good at pvp(not a big deal really)
fix - what in the hell were you thinking when you nerfed rangers as bad as you did and left necro's/SK's practically the same?!? **SMURF** /boggle I'm not saying their nerf wasn't needed because it was but to take away neutral/good teams best pvp class at the time and practically neuter them while leaving evil teams best pvp classes just as strong doesn't make much sense at all. I have to say that their bow damage should be upped SLIGHTLY, and their chance to hit while running should also be upped SLIGHTLY to put them more in line with their ability to kill/survive because as of now they can't kill that well and can't survive all that well either.
Rogue aka the most gimped pvp class in EQ by far:
pro's - in large battle can actually be pretty usefull because they arent easily noticed and can get behind casters and deal signifigant damage very fast, can deal decent damage in melee range combat, oh and they can drag bodies and stuff
cons - where do I start? players dont stand still, backstab is virtually useless in pvp unless you can manage to time it perfectly and hit backstab at the exact right time for it to land, damage is VERY bad in pvp, low hp's, highly vulnerable to melee and to spells, good gear will help with spells, the only viable way for a rogue to ever be good at pvp is with a tendonslicer(procs a lure resist snare, very usefull), all of their usefull aa's and excellent gear at that point they can kill halfway decently but compared to pretty much every other class they are a joke, and also their poisons do nothing in pvp(which is something that if changed could totally turn the class around in pvp).
fix - in any rpg/mmorpg game rogues are all about their ability to deal a deadly first attack unseen, their ability to poison their daggers and deal a devistating back stab and basically assassinate their victim however thats not the case in this game, atleast not in pvp. A few simple things could make rogues not only good at pvp but extremely fun to play to!(who'd of thought?) First and probably the most important thing would be to give rogues the ability to hide completely from other players sight. This has to be implemented in a way in which its not overpowered, so I suggest something along the lines of an AA ability that grants them this ability when activated and they can remain hidden from all players for 2 minutes with a 25minute re-use timer. This would allow them to either have an excellent way of getting the first attack in(what theyre known for) or an excellent means of escape(also what theyre known for). Secondly, make poisons usefull in pvp like a 20 second -300pr snare or something or even an unresistable 5 second blind, or a 500 dmg lure resist dd, something usefull. Its a shame to see poisons go to such a waste when they could and should be effective. Would be nice to give them a similar ability as I suggested for monks with a one time per 30 minute long range attack that could finish off a fleeing target because every melee knows how frustrating it is to nearly kill someone only for them to either gate or book to safety.
Shadow Knight aka NEEDS NERF:
pro's - good melee damage, death touch, nearly unresistable spells which heal themself, very hard to resist high damage dots, instant cast selo's horse, DEATH TOUCH, high hp's/ac, extremely hard to kill due to selo horse and ability to cast fast-casting unresistable lifetaps, oh yea and DEATH TOUCH
cons - what cons?
fix - the ultimate pvp class, incredibly hard to kill while at the same time being the best killer, doesn't make much sense does it. The nerf with giving DT a 1 second cast time is pretty nice I believe that will help the cause towards their nerfing but I think it should also do 50% of its PvE damage in PvP(and this is coming from someone who plays exclusively on the evil team on SZ). As I said with instant cast horses for paladins, they need to be nerfed...big time BADLY, give it a 3 second casting time, sow speed when snared, whatever else you can think of. Make their spells slightly more resistable/partially resistable in pvp also. Thats about all I can think of.
Shaman:
pro's - lots of usefull buffs/debuffs, AA disease root is nice, fast cast heals, excellent heal over time costing little mana, practically never goes oom, aa pets are helpful, summoned pet can stun/interrupt and do small damage, powerful dots(if they land), decent nukes but nothing great, pretty tuff to kill a shaman.
cons - offensive spells are highly resisted in pvp vs anyone with good gear, only good for healing/debuffing pretty much, not an efficient PKer
fix - nothing I can think of, very well balanced, one thing that would be good to see is making their offensive dots/dd's a little harder to resist so that they can do some damage.
Warrior:
pro's - extra natural magic resistance $$, highest hp class/high ac, very usefull disciplines in pvp especially with disc revamp(most notably is mightystrike disc, its very nice for pvp), very high melee range damage with good weapon(plankton or dathor great hammer), rampage is VERY nice for pvp, simply owns casters with stun kick at max haste
cons - warriors do not come into their true power for a very long time, requires high level with many many aa's and lots of good gear, until then warriors are just "hired help" in pvp but when all of that work of getting those levels/aa's/gear is over then warriors really start to shine in pvp because they go from hardly being able to kill, to being juggernauts, other then that warriors are restricted to melee range combat only and are very buff dependant and must ALWAYS have sow inorder to be effective at all pretty much.
fix - perfectly balanced class IMO, altho we are very hard to kill I think we should be because unlike almost every other class, warriors have to work very hard to become that tuff to kill, and despite our high damage abilities with melee we are still very restricted because its very easy to get away from who has to be right next to you to hit you. Nothing to nerf or tweak here.
Wizard:
pro's - very high long range damage, fast casting/semi hard to resist nuke that stuns, lures, SoS, strong root, insta kill ability..manaburn, 2 instant escape methods, PK machine very efficient at solo pvp.
cons - low hp's, dies easily(if their 2 insta cast escapes arent up), highly vulnerable to melee and pretty vulnerable to spells altho fixed with good gear
fix - insta gate needs to be nerfed so badly, giving them the ability to PK extremely well and escape any situation is ridiculous, they get a nearly guarenteed kill every 72 minutes with manaburn, they can kill very well even without manaburn and can sit and hide in a safe zone until all of those thing refresh and go PK again with like .001% chance of dying. I'm not exactly how to go about nerfing wizards exactly but it needs to be done somehow, if insta gate gets nerfed enough that might be all they really need because they die very easily but don't deserve or need 2 insta gate spells to be efficient in pvp especially when they can cast gate in like 2.5 seconds with aa's/buffs/gear.
I believe some of these fixes would definately improve PvP alot and make it more enjoyable. I'd like to hear some comments on what people think of these ideas.
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Zamysleni nad EQ pvp (author:Lumiiee) - long
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Posted - 21/04/2005 : 10:59:28
